Rover 200 & 400 Owners Club

OK, here's the crack.

We run a specialist Engineering Workshop on the Portuguese island of Madeira,.
We look after Jag / Land Rover / Rolls-Royce and Bentley Vehicles (and anything weird or unusual).

We have been gifted a 1993? Rover 214 GSi by an old lady.
The car is a low mileage (40,000km - 30,000miles) barn find and is in spectacular condition inside and out., and being the GSI, is a nice spec too.
And everything works!!!

It's worth nothing over here - maybe 500 euro - the rovers are not liked because of the well known overheating and head gasket issues.
But - fixed up, it is ideal as our workshop mule / loaner / airport run car - cheap and quite smart.

But, as expected, the head gasket is so bad, it's squirting out from the front onto the exhaust manifold!

The problem is, that we cant help ourselves!
On the weekend, our idea of a good time is to binge - watch Bad Obsession Motorsport's "Project Binky" while drinking two stroke oil mixed with red bull!!
Keeping it stock, just isn't our kind of thing, and we end up "improving" everything we own.
Our favourite saying is "While we have the engine apart, why dont we....." and things go downhill from there.

Since we will have the engine in bits, we could improve it...

Madeira is the size of reading, and higher than Ben Nevis, so it's really hard on gearboxes and brakes.
So, we are thinking along the lines of an upgrade to the 1.8 non vvc. from something like a ZS, for example, with the PG1 gearbox.
We are not looking for mad BHP, but more like a nice boost in torque and drivability - a nice smooth and torquey car.

I know I can fit the 1.8 bottom end, and the fuelling mods are business as usual to us, but the R65 gearbox won't necessarily stay alive, so a PG1 gearbox is in order.
I guess driveshafts are needed from the zs, but what else?
Anyone done this before?

TIA,

Mike.

Wouldn't mind drooling over some photos of it as it stands!

I'll gladly post some up.


The critical flaw of the head gasket really shows up here with our high temperatures / steep climbs and lack of maintenance.
Add to that the typical attitude of driving it until it won't drive any further - the K-Series is doomed from the start!
By the time the fault is noticed, the car is toast, and what is normally an easy HG replacement is now a bottom end failure through catastrophic overheat or oil starvation.
Not helped by the fast warmup times either.

I'm actually looking forward to getting the ld girl int eh garage and sorting her out.

But as parts are hard to come by over here, I have to be canny about parts sourcing.

Hence the wonder about parts carry over from the ZS/45

Fit a Grey PRT thermostat, no more fast warm ups and heat soak

Sounds like an interesting project.

If you found a 1.8 ZR donor you'd get the bigger front brakes on the end of the driveshafts too, enabling you to 'drop it in', if only it was that easy....

The engine mounting system differs significantly between R8 and R3 200s so you have to figure a way out to adapt one or the other. The R8 1.4 may not cope with the extra torque well and the R3 system requires changes to the BIW for gearbox and engine mounts, plus toeboard for the PAS rack if you take the subframe across.

Then you've got the electrics to sort as the engine controls will be different.

I'm sure this has been done before so you're likely to get more help here as you develop your plans

" The engine mounting system differs significantly between R8 and R3 200s so you have to figure a way out to adapt one or the other. The R8 1.4 may not cope with the extra torque well and the R3 system requires changes to the BIW for gearbox and engine mounts, plus toeboard for the PAS rack if you take the subframe across."

Not strictly true.... K Series engines all share the same engine mounts and dimensions (on the engine side), and this never changed so a "late" 1.8 K will bolt into the "early" K engined cars using the existing engine mount setup (Drivetrain torque capability permitting) - this is why we see metros (Rover 100's) with the 1.8 (sounds hilarious to me!).

Yes, the R65 gearbox is unlikely to cope, hence the desire to fit the PG1, and as the PG1 was already fitted to the larger engine R8's, the mountings should be available off the shelf.

Trying to fit the R3 subframe into the R8 would introduce unnecessary complexity for little benefit.

By all accounts, the rover 45/ZS is closer to the R8 in terms of carry over parts than the R3 - I'm trying to find out what will carry over, and what the best donor would be.
(remember that the 200 and 400 were essentially identical apart from the back end, whereas the 25 and 45 are quite different cars, with the 45 (HHR) closer resembling the R8 platform)

The electrics won't really need to change (again, why try and shoehorn the R3 electrics into the R8 - what's the benefit?)?
The Fuel injection system will need re-chipping / adapting, maybe even a stand along ECU - this is like shelling peas to us - not a problem.

What I'm trying to find out is what the carry-over parts from the 1.8's are.
At the moment, a ZS120 would seem to be a good donor, and would give me most of the bits I need (including some bigger brakes) - Anyone gone this route?

JOHNDQ wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 6:08 am Fit a Grey PRT thermostat, no more fast warm ups and heat soak

Ahh - the Freelander K-Series thermostat setup? good idea - I'll look into the pipework.

We use these thermostats on the TD5 out here, they have a usefully lower temp rating thats helpful in our warmer climate.

Captainbeaky wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:50 am By all accounts, the rover 45/ZS is closer to the R8 in terms of carry over parts than the R3 - I'm trying to find out what will carry over, and what the best donor would be.
(remember that the 200 and 400 were essentially identical apart from the back end, whereas the 25 and 45 are quite different cars, with the 45 (HHR) closer resembling the R8 platform)

Not quite.
The 45 HHR inherited the R8 rear suspension, but was very different up front.
The R3 inherited the R8 front end, but was very different at the back.

And if anyone round here knows the inside stories, it'll be GTiJohn!

Captainbeaky wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:53 am

JOHNDQ wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 6:08 am Fit a Grey PRT thermostat, no more fast warm ups and heat soak

Ahh - the Freelander K-Series thermostat setup? good idea - I'll look into the pipework.

I'd be very interested to see what this looks like but in an R3 1.8VVC

If it's a GSi it may have ABS in which case the larger front disks will be fitted as part of the ABS package I believe?